carb take 2

Fri May 15 05:20:18 PDT 2009

If DJ did not supply a drill bit and there are no instructions to drill the slides, then let it go. I have an old DJ Stage 1 kit for the GPZ and it was included so they must have changed, probably to save the cost of the drill bit.

John, regardless of DJ's expertise, our experience has been the DJ diaphragm springs are too light, letting the slides raise too quickly causing an off-idle and part-throttle stumble when opening the throttle. Replacing the DJ springs with the stock ones clears it up immediately. I have put DJ kits in other bikes as well and not had problems but they missed it a little with the GPZ kit.

Jonathon, you do not want any vertical play in the needle when it is in the slide. Put the white plastic retainer over the needle, hold it down with your finger and see if you can move the needle up and down. 
Shim as required to remove this play. Your mid-range fuel mixture is determined by the vertical position of the tapered needle in the needle jet. If it can move around vertically all over the place, so will the fuel metering.

It's OK to block off the openings in the airbox left by the removal of the emission hoses. Don't forget there is a vacuum tap on the carbs that needs to be plugged as well.

---- Jonathon Jay <annihilator1100 at hotmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> Yeah, they supplied a sheet metal screw and a drill bit. but the bit is 5/32" and the instructions say nothing of drilling slides.
> 
> Any thoughts on the little bit of play?
> 
> Regards- 
> 
> J
> 
> What's The Difference Between Ignorance And Apathy?
> ~ I Don't Know And I Don't Care ~
> 
> 
> 
>  
> > From: johnsoliday at msn.com
> > To: annihilator1100 at hotmail.com; andyburkard at yahoo.com; gpzlist at micapeak.com; blackgpz at rochester.rr.com
> > Subject: RE: carb take 2
> > Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 23:54:46 -0600
> > 
> > Interesting, the only bits that came in the two kits I bought were for
> > drilling the slides.... I use a very small drill bit to punch through the
> > pilot caps and then use a sheet metal screw to pull them out.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gpzlist-bounces at micapeak.com [mailto:gpzlist-bounces at micapeak.com] On
> > Behalf Of Jonathon Jay
> > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:48 PM
> > To: johnsoliday at msn.com; andyburkard at yahoo.com; Kawasaki GPZ1100 discussion;
> > blackgpz at rochester.rr.com
> > Subject: RE: carb take 2
> > 
> > 
> > The DJ kit came with a 5/32 drill bit, but this is a large bit and used to
> > make a pilot hole to pull those plugs out.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I know I have a lot of questions, but this is my first time doing a jet kit.
> > I am just soaking the carbs overnight and reassembling tomorrow.
> > 
> > DJ supplies 4 clips and 8 washers. Per their instructions, I'm putting the
> > clip on the second from the top groove with 2 washers over it.
> > 
> > Then I put the needle in the rubber cup.
> > 
> > Then the white cup thing with the feet over it goes over the end of the
> > needle.
> > 
> > Once it is all together it seems as if there is a bit too much free play in
> > the needle. Is this ok?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Regards- 
> > 
> > J
> > 
> > What's The Difference Between Ignorance And Apathy?
> > ~ I Don't Know And I Don't Care ~
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > From: johnsoliday at msn.com
> > > To: annihilator1100 at hotmail.com; andyburkard at yahoo.com;
> > gpzlist at micapeak.com; blackgpz at rochester.rr.com
> > > Subject: RE: carb take 2
> > > Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 21:49:40 -0600
> > > 
> > > Some DJ kits supply a drill and you enlarge the air bleed hole in the
> > slide
> > > by drilling it through with the slightly larger drill bit. I believe this
> > > makes the slides move upward faster for quicker throttle response as
> > vacuum
> > > is what pulls the slides up, not your throttle hand. Maybe that's only in
> > > the stage 3 kit (I dunno as my bike is bone stock with all the CA air
> > > pollution stuff). My DJ stage 3 kit for an FJ1100 came with the drill bit.
> > > The air box holes are for crankcase gases to get returned to the engine
> > and
> > > burnt. You can probably block them off or leave them open probably won't
> > > make a difference.
> > > 
> > > Have Fun, remember it's a hobby ;-)
> > > 
> > > John
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: gpzlist-bounces at micapeak.com [mailto:gpzlist-bounces at micapeak.com]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Jonathon Jay
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 8:51 PM
> > > To: andyburkard at yahoo.com; Kawasaki GPZ1100 discussion;
> > > blackgpz at rochester.rr.com
> > > Subject: RE: carb take 2
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Well, I figured out what you meant by clips...on the needle. I'm following
> > > the DJ instructions by using the 108 mains and clip in second position. I
> > AM
> > > NOT using their supplied springs.
> > > 
> > > I drilled out the plugs, now just to clean the insides and re-assemble.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 1.
> > > 
> > > I was recently told to drill the slides? DJ makes no mention of this, what
> > > did y'all mean by drilling the slides? DJ doesn't mention it, so what will
> > > happen if I don't?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 2.
> > > 
> > > Also, I did the reed block off plates. My airbox has 3 holes for hoses.
> > > Should I plug them all, do I leave some open? Details, please.
> > > 
> > > Regards- 
> > > 
> > > J
> > > 
> > > What's The Difference Between Ignorance And Apathy?
> > > ~ I Don't Know And I Don't Care ~
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:26:22 -0700
> > > > From: andyburkard at yahoo.com
> > > > Subject: Re: carb take 2
> > > > To: gpzlist at micapeak.com; blackgpz at rochester.rr.com
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > What Steve said...
> > > > 
> > > > Um, Jon, hate to say this but if you're asking questions like "what's a
> > > shim, clip, 108..." you may want to get some help.
> > > > 
> > > > it's really not hard to do, but it is tedious. The key is what Steve
> > said
> > > at the end - every bike is different and what worked for me may not for
> > your
> > > in terms of jet sizes, where to put shims, etc.
> > > > 
> > > > what i described worked wonderfully for me, and the nice thing about the
> > > dynojet kit is that it comes with a free dyno run coupon which can help
> > dial
> > > in where Steve is saying take it out and ride in those RPM ranges. call
> > your
> > > local dealers and ask them if they'll take the coupon, or i think there
> > may
> > > even be a link on the coupon for participating dealers in your area.
> > > > 
> > > > I had my carbs on and off 4 or 5 times, and did about 3 dyno runs in all
> > > before i had mine dialed in. yes, keeping the stock air box does make this
> > > process a total PITA, but once you're done, you'll be done. patience,
> > > grasshopper...
> > > > 
> > > > have fun!
> > > > andy b
> > > > 
> > > > --- On Wed, 5/13/09, Steve Northrop <blackgpz at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > From: Steve Northrop <blackgpz at rochester.rr.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: carb take 2
> > > > > To: "Kawasaki GPZ1100 discussion" <gpzlist at micapeak.com>
> > > > > Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 6:01 PM
> > > > > The main jets have the number stamped
> > > > > on them. The clips are the little e-clips included in the
> > > > > kit, the shims are the little washers included in the kit.
> > > > > Yes the bike will run well with the stock diaphragm springs
> > > > > and the Dynojet parts. You can adjust the pilot screws
> > > > > without removing the carbs. If you need to make a needle or
> > > > > mainjet change, the carbs should be removed. Do not use an
> > > > > adhesive on the diaphragms. You can use a little Vaseline to
> > > > > hold the edges in before you replace the carb top.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Steve in Western NY
> > > > > '96 GPZ1100
> > > > > '08 KLR 650
> > > > > '08 Tuono Factory
> > > > > "You Can't Fix Stupid", Ron White
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > > From: Jonathon Jay 
> > > > > To: blackgpz at rochester.rr.com
> > > > > ; Kawasaki GPZ1100 discussion 
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:16 PM
> > > > > Subject: RE: carb take 2
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Ok, now a couple questions. 
> > > > > I wouln't know a 108 main if it bit me in the ass.
> > > > > Same for this talk of clip and shim.
> > > > > What I have is what was included in my DJ kit.
> > > > > As long as I use my stock springs can I make it run
> > > > > well with the DJ supplied parts?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Will I have to remove carbs every time I make
> > > > > adjustments?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Lastly, I am cleaning the carbs too. I very
> > > > > carefully pulled the rubber diaphrams out, they're about the
> > > > > circumfrence of a lime and the needle goes in the middle.
> > > > > There appeared to be some mild adhesive helding them in.
> > > > > When it is time to reinstall, what do I use for adhesive?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Regards- 
> > > > > 
> > > > > J
> > > > > 
> > > > > What's The Difference Between Ignorance And Apathy?
> > > > > ~ I Don't Know And I Don't Care ~
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > From: blackgpz at rochester.rr.com
> > > > > > To: gpzlist at micapeak.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: carb take 2
> > > > > > Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 20:04:23 -0400
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > >>Don't screw around with the pilot
> > > > > screws if it idled right before you 
> > > > > > >>put the kit in. All the screws do is
> > > > > affect mixture up to about 1200 rpm 
> > > > > > >>or so.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > This is not correct. The pilot screws affect
> > > > > air:fuel up to about 4000 rpm 
> > > > > > so it is important to get these right for good
> > > > > part-throttle cruise. You 
> > > > > > must have the ability to adjust them so remove
> > > > > the plugs covering them as 
> > > > > > outlined in the jet kit.
> > > > > > My recommendation FWIW:
> > > > > > Install 108 main jets (as you have an
> > > > > aftermarket exhaust, particularly the 
> > > > > > large headpipe SS2r)
> > > > > > Do not change the pilot jets if you are keeping
> > > > > the stock airbox.
> > > > > > Set the pilot screws at 2 1/2 turns out from
> > > > > lightly bottomed. Your 
> > > > > > adjustment range is 1 turn to 4 turns out. 2
> > > > > 1/2 turns out is the middle of 
> > > > > > the range and a good starting point.
> > > > > > Drill the slides - be careful.
> > > > > > Put an e-clip in the second groove from the top
> > > > > of each needle. Put a shim 
> > > > > > washer on top of that, then put another e-clip
> > > > > in the first groove to retain 
> > > > > > the shim washer. This clip-shim-clip
> > > > > arrangement duplicates the thickness of 
> > > > > > the "nailhead" of the stock needle so there
> > > > > will be no up & down play of the 
> > > > > > needle in the slide when you put the white
> > > > > plastic retainer over it. Make 
> > > > > > sure none of the "feet" of the white plastic
> > > > > retainer cover the slide lift 
> > > > > > hole.
> > > > > > DO NOT install the kit supplied diaphragm
> > > > > springs. Reinstall the stock ones.
> > > > > > Put it back together and fire it up.
> > > > > > There are 3 circuits in the carburetor. The
> > > > > main jet is used in the 7000 to 
> > > > > > redline RPM range, the needle controls the
> > > > > 4000-7000 rpm range and the pilot 
> > > > > > screw from idle to about 4000 rpm. This is
> > > > > simplified a bit as there is some 
> > > > > > overlap but for adjustment purposes, these are
> > > > > ranges each have the most 
> > > > > > effect on.
> > > > > > Start with the main jet. You must get this one
> > > > > right first. Take it out and 
> > > > > > run it in the 7000 and up range. I know it's
> > > > > hard because of the speed 
> > > > > > involved but what you are looking for is good
> > > > > throttle response, it pulls 
> > > > > > hard and none to maybe a little blue smoke.
> > > > > > Next is the needle. Again, run it in the
> > > > > 4000-7000 rpm range. Again you are 
> > > > > > looking for good throttle response, pulls hard
> > > > > and makes a good transition 
> > > > > > through 7000 rpm.
> > > > > > Last is the pilot screws. What you are striving
> > > > > for is smooth running at a 
> > > > > > steady 4000 rpm in second gear. If it runs
> > > > > smooth from the git-go, turn the 
> > > > > > screws in a half turn at a time until it begins
> > > > > to surge and buck, then back 
> > > > > > them out a half turn so you have the leanest
> > > > > setting the bike runs smoothly 
> > > > > > at. If it surges from the start, back the
> > > > > screws out a half turn at a time 
> > > > > > until it just goes away.
> > > > > > Everybody's bike is different and some
> > > > > adjustments may need to be made to 
> > > > > > tune your particular bike. The above is a good
> > > > > starting point.
> > > > > 
> > > > >
> > >
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